We need to up our game to match the graduates

05 November 2009 | By Antony Oliver

This week I have the honour of taking part in the final judging assessment for the 2009 NCE Graduate of the Year Award. Six of the profession’s top new entrants will vie for this coveted, career enhancing annual award.

I say an honour because, if past experience is anything to go by, it will be one of the most interesting, inspiring and challenging days of the year.

The shortlisted finalists were announced last week and I am sure my fellow judges and I are going to meet some pretty impressive individuals.

On paper all have already demonstrated a huge depth of knowledge and commitment to the profession and all have very clear views about their profession and, in particular, their future role in it.

“Each year we are faced with a group of young professionals who, frankly, are scarily talented.”

This week when we all meet face to face it will be a fascinating process during which it will be once again hard to say who is the more nervous − the judges or the finalists. Each year we are faced with a group of young professionals who, frankly, are scarily talented.

They are all the kind of young people that this industry needs to continue to attract. Yet while the six finalists are the cream of the crop of civil engineering graduates, having assessed the entries from the other 120 contenders this year, it is obvious that there is a raft of talent still entering the industry.

This must continue. It is a point that bears repeating. As the recession continues to bite and firms find it harder and harder to maintain profits, attracting − and retaining − the best talent becomes more and more critical.

So schemes such as those at MWH to offer staff sabbaticals rather than redundancy must surely be encouraged and copied elsewhere if we are to ensure that existing talent is retained in engineering.

“Schemes such as those at MWH to offer staff sabbaticals rather than redundancy must surely be encouraged and copied elsewhere.”

Meanwhile at grass roots, Network Rail’s Simon Kirby last week highlighted the worrying gap between the number of new entrants required in the industry and the number studying engineering at university.

Business secretary Lord Mandelson’s renewed emphasis this week on science and engineering courses at university and the need for higher research to be more closely linked to driving the UK’s economic prosperity must therefore be welcomed.

But he also outlined plans to ask universities to provide more information about future job prospects, salaries and job security.

This prospect starkly underlines the need for civil engineering to get its house in order now and demonstrate to prospective professional civil engineers that this is the career that rewards the best.

So wish us all luck for the judging this week − finalists and the judges − and look out for the announcement of the overall Graduate of the Year Award winner next month. Rest assured that, economic downturn or not, they will be exactly the kind of young person that this industry cannot do without.

Antony Oliver is NCE’s editor

Readers' comments (88)

Anonymous | 13-Nov-2009 8:13 am
I left the civil engineering profession 10 years ago through lack of opportunity, job security and overall disenchantment . It took me 3 attempts to become chartered and by the time I was preparing to sit my professional review for the 3rd attempt I had already made my mind up about leaving civil engineering. The whole qualification process and setup at the ICE was something that I actually came to despise. I now work in IT and have really fulfilled my potential and have also been rewarded for it.

Based on the lack of opportunity and poor job security I find the following sort of comment: "The worrying gap between the number of new entrants required in the industry and the number studying engineering at university." rather odd? The moment there is a dip in the economy then civil engineering is one of the most vulnerable professions. Should my children go to College / University in the future I will be advising them to stay well clear of science and engineering as these professions have very little prospects and job security in the UK.
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Anonymous | 13-Nov-2009 9:55 am
I could not agree more with the above comments. I am a chartered structural engineer with over 10years experience and have been jobless for the past 9 months after been made redundant. It is discouraging to note that after all the hardwork to become qualified, one could still still remain unemployed for months. I am seriously considering a change of career to the health sector now.

I would not have problem advising my 8 year old son not to take up a career in engineering because he already knows how volatile the profession is. He looked at me one day and said " Dad I have not made up my mind on what I would do yet, but definetly not engineering" - smart boy.
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Anonymous | 14-Nov-2009 8:16 pm
I opted for civil engineering voluntarily and after 15 years of experience I curse myself for being in this profession. Having to struggle to stay afloat in the current times and also becoming a chartered from ICE is another nightmare.

I would be advising my son not be peek at this profession and never to take up an engineering profession.
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Anonymous | 15-Nov-2009 1:29 pm
I made the first comment above and reading the two subsequent responses is really quite tragic. Best wishes to you both and I hope things improve soon. To be a chartered structural engineer and out of work is astonishing and a clear sign of where this country is going - i would recommend you give up on the UK and go to Australia where there is demand for people like you! Get in touch with one of the big job agencies such as Hayes - you might be pleasantly surprised.

My work in IT is also at threat from offshoring to India so I may be off to Australia too. What will be left in the UK, public sector jobs for doctors, teachers and the rest of us working for the minimum wage "McJobs"?
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Ian Johnson | 17-Nov-2009 0:33 am
Whatever profession you have I think practicing in the UK is the problem.

At 27 I had to leave the UK as my monthly salary was never quite enough, so I went to the Bahrain to help the client with the construction of their first state of the art hospital.

Then to Saudi with Aramco where my dream came true - massive projects - lots of responsibility - It was like being highly paid to continue with your hobby.

I retired at 42 to the UK and after 2 years hated it.

So I started freelancing and have throughly enjoyed it but it meant working all round the world - I am still at it in Asia, now 65 and love every day - How many people do you know based in the UK can say that.

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Anonymous | 17-Nov-2009 1:49 pm
Oh to be a banker! Huge salary, massive bonus, bring the country to its knees, no come uppance.

We have two problems.

1. Public perception: Engineers are still seen as the man who mends the washing machine.

2. ICE: Whilst ever this continues to be dominated by senior people from employers there is no impetus for Civil Engineers as individuals to be properlty renumerated. Unfortunately ICE seems to be run in the interests of the employers and not the members. For example, when there was a shortage of engineers, ICE asked for more to be let in to the country, not for salaries to be raised. Not only was this not in the interests of ordinary members but was directly against them.

Back to the bankers. They work the opposite way. They perpetuate the myth that they must be paid huge salaries and huge bonuses or the best people will go elsewhere. This flies in the face of motivational theory and must call into question there whole recruitment and remuneration policies, which have employed people who have made a total shambles of the banking system. Pity civils don't try a similar tack, then we might be properly remunerated instead of earning less then bricklayers, plumbers, etc who work on our sites and have none of the responsibilities and risks of prosecution that we have!!!!!

When I went on a course in preparation for my professionsl exam essays about 20 years ago one of the questions was would you recommend civil engineering to an A level student. A vote was taken and it was a resounding NO! I suspect nothing has changed.

In some respects it is a pity I enjoy civil engineering so much or I might have found something more lucrative to do after over 30 years. However I will try and steer my children towards a profession where they will be more appreciated.
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Anonymous | 17-Nov-2009 1:55 pm
I’m in the eighth year of my career and reading the above comments only confirm what I and a lot of my peers are already thinking - A career in civils probably does reward the best and brightest but for the majority who actually do the ‘grunt’ work it doesn’t look great.

Not everybody is going to be selected for the finals of competitions. Please remember this when you are distributing praise.

The Industry is obsessed with CEng and pours thousands of pounds at graduates even where CEng MICE isn’t appropriate e.g. engineering geologists and environmental engineers who feel disadvantaged by the lack of a civils first degree.

Civil engineering and the construction industry as a whole needs a make-over. We need to make the professionals of tomorrow feel that this is a career worth being involved in, until we can manage that all the discussion we can muster won’t be enough.
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Anonymous | 17-Nov-2009 5:38 pm
It's all getting a bit corporate isn't it? Which often requires a different skills set to progress.
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Anonymous | 17-Nov-2009 11:39 pm
Like the poster above, I am in my eight year of work and will hopefully be chartered next month.

However, given the choice again I would not have done this.
For all my enjoyment of the job (something my employer is currently relying on given the laughable salary they currently give me) I would most certainly have not taken this career path if I had known then what I know now.

It seems that every week we have another series of comments that bemoan the fact we are underpaid and unappreciated. As far as I can tell, we are wasting our breath - there is no input from the ICE nor any action to change anything. I do wonder what exactly my subs go on and what the ICE actually does for me as a member. I would most certainly not reccomend this as a career to anyone who showed any modicum of talent as, on the whole, they would be better renumerated doing anything else but this - and at the end of the day, we (generally) go to work to earn money to live.

I would have been better off pursuing a career at Tesco's than as a Civil Engineer - at least then I would be able to afford to buy a house!
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Anonymous | 18-Nov-2009 2:24 pm
Wonder whether the editor reads all of these comments. Every time I read his articles about the energy and enthusiasm of modern civil engineers I find a sharp contrasts between his views and the views of his readers.
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Editor's reply
Actually I do read these comments and where appropriate respond! I am certainly aware that many in the profession, probably rightly, remain disappointed with reward and recognition that it brings. However, I also know that there are a huge number of people that get a massive amount of satisfaction and reward from what they do and what they create as engineers - I am fortunate to meet them virtually every day in my work. It is really tough at the moment across the whole employment spectrum but the good news is that civil engineering firms are still on the look out for best candidates - and energy and enthusiasm is certainly a key ingrediant!
Antony Oliver
Anonymous | 18-Nov-2009 4:16 pm
Quote: "At 27 I had to leave the UK as my monthly salary was never quite enough, so I went to the Bahrain to help the client with the construction of their first state of the art hospital."

Just wish such opportunities existed for graduate engineers in the early 90's when I started out. I graduated in the middle of recession and was lucky to get a job never mind have such choice. By this time foreign clients only wanted chartered engineers overseas so that was never going to be an option in the early years.

In the UK you are well rewarded in many other professions (law, accountancy, medicine etc) but engineering really suffers, especially when the term "engineer" can be applied to just about any trade so no wonder it isn't held in very high esteem.
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Anonymous | 18-Nov-2009 6:46 pm
These comments are a bit nerve racking as i am a second year Civil Engineering student. I am considering moving away after graduating, though now i might look into this even more seriously. Although i will have to get experience before anybody abroad will take me on! Hmmmmm.........
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Craig Farquhar | 18-Nov-2009 7:02 pm
im in third year, indeed a bit worrying
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Anonymous | 18-Nov-2009 10:56 pm
I really don't think the editors of this magazine have a clue!

Why would anyone with half a brain go into a profession that is underpaid and undervalued by both employers and society? Furthermore, a profession that of late has very poor job security. Even if you manage to dodge the effects of this recession, companies are queuing up to develop offshore design centres where all the jobs will go to. In 10-15 years, there won't be anything left of this profession in the UK other than a handful of people directed design centres in India or China. Well, for about as long as it takes to train them up and for them to realise they don't need us anymore.

Personally, when I think back to the career advise I was given regarding Engineering, I feel conned and I wouldn't recommend Engineering as a future career to anyone! Point of fact, I would encourage people in the infancy of their careers to leave and find something better while they're still young enough to do so.

The opportunities offered by the profession are poor in comparison to other professions and certainly not befitting the top academically minded people in society. The salaries on offer don't reflect the level of responsibility involved with the job and hard work required to become professionally qualified.

Yeah sure, you'll still have clever people entering the industry, but not nearly as much as the necessary amount to make changes and lift the standard of the working conditions. The industry was understaffed when I joined several years ago, what's it going to be like in 5 – 10 years time with yet more redundancies, retirements and lack of recruitment?

Oh, but yes, we can harp on about what wonderful people we are and how we can change society! Yes, this is really reflected in the profession's inability to land an invite to Copenhagen!
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Editor's reply
Thanks for your vote of confidence!
As I said earlier, yes there is always scope for better reward in the profession but there are still many many people in the profession who both love their work and earn a decent living from it. It may require you to change jobs and seek out new challenges but there are still opportunities out there and I do believe that in 10-15 years we will still have a very healthy industry in the UK as we lead the way towards solving the very real and pressing issues around energy, climate change adaptation and delivering the low carbon economy. What could be more important and exciting than that?
Antony Oliver
Mohamad Hakim | 19-Nov-2009 12:33 pm
Some of the comments here are alarming. They reflect a wide dissatisfaction among fellow engineers. The ICE should be really concerend about this and carry out a thorough investigation and benchmarking excercise between civil engineering and other professions. This should cover the main aspects such as:
- Levels of responsibilities and risk taking, Surely a banker might be dealing with huge sums of money but a lead structural engineer on a bridge project is taking responsibility of the safe operation of that bridge for the whole of its life. The risk here cannot be compared : human life vs money!!
- The slow progression in our profession: To get to a level where an engineer excercise proper decision making, it will take him/ her about 10 - 12 years to get the right experience. In other professions we see young people getting promoted to directors and executives levels in couple of years only.
- The "real" market rate of civil engineers: Forget about the ICE salary survey. What is our real market value? How do clients/ employers value the contribution a professional civil engineer make? In other countires a civil engineer's signature is required for every housing development, to ensure construction works are up to standards. Why this is not the case in the UK? Imagine if a chartered engineer's signature was required for, say loft extensions (as they comprise considerable structural calculation/ design) and other housing projects. Our social and financial status would have been much much better.
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Anonymous | 19-Nov-2009 1:00 pm
>

I work in IT and we already do this on a large scale as jobs dry up in the UK, so that comment surprise me in the slightest. This country is cutting it's own throat and politicians don't give a damn.
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Anonymous | 19-Nov-2009 1:01 pm
"In 10-15 years, there won't be anything left of this profession in the UK other than a handful of people directed design centres in India or China. Well, for about as long as it takes to train them up and for them to realise they don't need us anymore."

I work in IT and we already do this on a large scale as jobs dry up in the UK, so the above comment doesn't surprise me in the slightest. This country is cutting it's own throat and politicians don't give a damn.

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Anonymous | 19-Nov-2009 5:14 pm
C'mon guys! Would you really want to be an accountant? Or a lawyer? They may earn mega bucks, but does their day to day life really appeal?
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Anonymous | 20-Nov-2009 5:39 am
I too share the sentiment of many of the readers who have posted here. I am an Australian water engineer with about 8 years experience who spent 18 months working in the UK until I was made redundant in July this year. I spent almost 4 months trying in vain to get another job, until I finally gave up and have now returned to Australia. To my huge surprise, I was able to get a job immediately on my return, earning around 30% more than what I was previously on.
So it seems to me that this undervaluing of engineers (and particularly water engineers who get paid a pittance) is mainly confined to the UK, and not necessarily the world market. There are plenty of jobs available all over the country, and to be honest I was amazed at the salaries being offered.
So to anyone who has been made redundant, there is plenty of opportunities over this side of the world, and to be honest, with the UK coming into winter, why wouldnt you want to consider a move to Australia?
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Anonymous | 20-Nov-2009 10:52 am
It's the same old complaining. I too feel that I don't earn enough, work too hard and that we are not recognised.
However my friends in nearly every other profession feel the same!

The only way to change it is to get involved and not just expect the ICE to do it for us. Higher quality of outputs and educating clients about value! Not just clients - last week my hairdresser asked what a civil engineer was and was blown away when I described what we do.
It's all too easy to complain and want our salaries to magically increase overnight.

I'm chartered, 6years experience and enjoy my job. I nearly became a mgmt consultant but am pleased I stuck with civil engineering!
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